Interview of Taipei Logy Chef Tahara (3)

Perspectives gained in Taiwan

SAJI: What kind of experience has it been to become the chef of this restaurant?

Tahara: Chef Kawate didn’t say to me directly “Be a chef in Taiwan”. He said it to me in a kind of joking way, “Ok, so how about Taiwan?” The conversation didn’t move past me saying “I think Taiwan would probably be good…”, but at the restaurant’s anniversary party he said “Next year I’m opening a shop in Taiwan, and Ryogo is the chef,” in front of dozens of Florilege guests. And then he said, “Ryogo, make a speech.” I think he thought I had agreed prior, but I really didn’t know anything. But when Chef said “Ryogo is the chef,” I thought “What?” and I got excited. That’s why I gave a speech. “I’m Tahara; I’ll be the chef in Taiwan next year.” I told them what I was aiming for and how I was thinking of doing things, and please come visit me in Taiwan.

SAJI: So that’s how it was, I see.

Tahara: That was how it happened, coming to Taiwan. Honestly, if I’m going to work in Japan, I felt like it was that time.

SAJI: That time?

Tahara: It’s not like I worked as I did up until now just with the intention of opening my own place, but I felt like it was time that the next thing I was going to do by myself (become a chef). And “I’m going to go overseas to do it. I don’t know much about Taiwan though,” was what I was thinking.

SAJI: Even if you don’t know anything, it’s still pretty exciting isn’t it.

Tahara: Yeah. I like to challenge new things. I get excited going to new places where no one knows me. Italy was like that too. It’s always exciting to be in a place where no one can save you but you. You have to build your circle from zero in a place like that.

SAJI: And it’s been one year since then. Looking back on it do you have any thoughts about it?

Tahara: Looking at it in terms of results, Michelin was announced in April, and we had only been open for 5 months so getting in was good luck. I wondered if they (inspectors) would come to eat here, but it appears they came several times, and eventually they came to me with their name card. At that time, they asked me what size my chef’s coat was. I thought, “Oh! I got a star!”, and I said “Size medium”.

SAJI: With a straight face. (laughs)

Tahara: But until April I was worried about it. Have they really come eaten here…? But the best part was something else. I change the menu about once every two months, but I’m always thinking about what the customer may like rather than what I’d like to make. I came to Taiwan not knowing anything about the country, and I asked around about what kind of food Taiwanese people like, but since we change the menu regularly I thought it would be a chance to test different flavors. Since it’s been one year, I’ve got a good impression of what kind of flavors they like and what gets a good response, so I’m planning to weave that knowledge into the planning from now. Also, within the year we’ve had customers who will tell me honestly that they weren’t really into the menu at times, but they still come back again. We have regular customers. Whether they liked the food every time or not, they still trust us enough to come back again and again. I think the customers have realized that we’re making something with a slightly different nuance each time. The fact that they have that kind of trust in us is what makes me the happiest.

SAJI: Making something with a different nuance, is because you are testing what they like?

Tahara: Yes. As well as I just want to change things sometimes. If you don’t know what flavor is going to be introduced next, you don’t get tired of the place. I want them to think that what we make is interesting as well as delicious. Even if you didn’t like the food this time, you can look forward to the next. But I have also failed twice in a row too. After all I am a foreigner here, and it is different from cooking for a Japanese person. I take great care in how I am cooking for them.

SAJI: How is it different than cooking for a Japanese person? If you have a typical customer profile, what would say it is?

Tahara: The typical customers are most often members of the general public who love restaurants. They’ve been to Florilege, and they’ve also been to other popular restaurants in Tokyo for example. That kind of person is very common. Of course younger people come too, there’s a wide variety of people. For Taiwanese people, I want them to recognize that they can come to our place to have Japanese-style food without going to Japan. I cannot create a flavor like a Taiwanese chef, I can only make something different from that, and that is my only aim. There are a lot of customers who say they prefer RAW or another restaurant, that that’s completely ok. But I don’t match anywhere. I can only make food which was clearly made by a Japanese.

SAJI: For example what kind of food?

Tahara: For example, when preparing eel in a similar image to Japan’s kabayaki, even if I change the flavoring, I want the dish to retain the original concept focused on a good aroma, the right amount of oil and high heat. Of course if you don’t know the original taste of the ingredients or how to cook it the right way you could wind up making something strange. So keeping this in mind, I add and subtract the flavorings and amount of oil, add a Taiwanese and Asian flare, and make something only I know how to. Something different from what I’ve ever eaten, something I can make only because I’m here. That’s what I’m searching for. I’m hoping that people who come to eat here from Japan will feel that this is Japanese food, but something you can’t find in Japan. Some people say, this would taste better if you used a fish from Japan, but I want to use my technique to deal with that and reduce that kind of thing. The people who come here from Japan for fine dining tend to be a very “pro-Japan” crowd.

SAJI: Japanese food is delicious after all.

Tahara: Sure. I know it’s delicious, but I want to make a restaurant that people from abroad (Japanese included) would say, “If I can have this kind of food I want to come to Taiwan again,” and for Taiwanese people like what I said before. I want people to have that feeling when they come to our restaurant. Taiwanese people have been to many restaurants in Japan that are hard to get a reservation at, they’ve had great Japanese food and sushi, and they know the food. People from Hong Kong and Singapore too. With that in mind, if I don’t think about the customer’s perspective when I cook, I’ll lose my footing. It’s a bit scary when a person who really knows food comes in.

SAJI: Please tell us about the dishes you made for us today. Savory egg custard and a squid entree. The squid entree is a sautéed lotus root rice cake topped with thinlysliced raw squid.

Tahara: This entree is one of the more Japanese ones. This would be considered a starch; I created the mochi by mixing lotus root with tapioca. We don’t serve bread at the restaurant, so in place of that I like to distribute the starch in different ways so as not to leave the customer with a heavy feeling, in this case it’s a rice cake using lotus root. Then I added squid on top…
It’s pretty common to consider something “Japanese” that has the aroma of yuzu or similar, but for me I feel this sense the most in the way squid is cut, for example. I was once asked by a sushi chef, “Do you know the taste of something that’s been cut well?” The idea that the taste of food changes when you cut it, and depending on how it is cut; I think that is a uniquely Japanese concept. It’s something normal in Japan though. After cutting through the thick skin to release the sweetness, I julienned (thinly sliced) the squid.

I combined the lotus root rice cake and squid ink with a squid ink Italian polenta in mind. Then I gave it a Japanese-style flavoring with acidity. I used a little tomato (dried tomato) in the dish, although it’s not in the squid ink sauce. There is also yuzu juice in it.

SAJI: It was sour.

Tahara: Yes, but it is not only to give it a refreshing palate. Kind of like mayonnaise, there are a lot of people who like it.

SAJI: The combination of acidity with oil?

Tahara: Yes. If it’s too light, it’s something I prefer, but I noticed that other people don’t like it as much. On the other hand, it is clear that I have been to Italy and learned French as well. There is a lot of cream and butter in this sauce. If it were me a long time ago, I would never have used them. It would not have become this kind of food.

SAJI: Is there Japanese ginger in it as well?

Tahara: It’s Japanese ginger pickles. This dish is overall Japanese in a sense…In the course there is always a dish like that. An “Oh, I know where you’re from” kind of a dish. “A Taiwanese couldn’t make this, I’m a Japanese in Taiwan so I can make it,” is what this dish is saying.

SAJI: The other dish is savory egg custard. You spoke a little about it at the market, but could you explain it in more detail?

Tahara: This egg custard is something I’ve continued making since we opened. First of all, the color scheme. Red, green, gold, in a black ramekin. At first I thought I should give it a lighter presentation, but this color scheme looks very Taiwanese, so I kept it. It consists of a French consommé, a Japanese savory egg custard, topped with a celeriac and lovage ice cream. Celeriac is a common French ingredient, but I cooked it with kelp, and the lovage is a dried Chinese herb version of the root and leaves. Mixing wild lovage with a soup that has a hint of Taiwanese gives it a very Chinese herbal taste. The soup is a beef consommé with an aroma of dried squid. It’s a key to making Taiwanese flavor. In Japan we don’t really make a soup using animal bones you know? In Korea it’s probably mainly beef base. In Taiwan the soup is characterized by adding a fish flavor to a soup made from animal bones. It’s originally a squid and pork broth, but I replaced it with consommé. A little bit Japanese, a little bit Taiwanese, also a bit French, a dish without a country. Adding in the importance of heat I learned at Florilege. It’s restricted by time and place because the ice cream will melt and the soup and egg custard will cool down, so it’s a dish you can only experience because you are sitting at this counter. It’s a dish that has a strong concept and is easy to explain so we’ve continued making it. As well it has my identity in it.

SAJI: What do you mean by identity?

Tahara: That I’m Japanese, have experience at Florilege, as well as experience in Europe; all of that is in this dish. More-so than being for Logy, it represents the progress of my skill. So I’ve always been thinking about making a new signature dish for Logy.

SAJI: When making a signature dish, you mentioned that you try to limit the ingredients to those found anywhere. Also, for example in the case of the savory egg custard, is there something you try to add to the composition of the dish thinking about the customer’s perspective?

Tahara: I try to make something with an umami that anyone would eat and think it’s delicious. The ice cream is quite bitter, but bitter is delicious when put in an Asian context. In Japan as well as Taiwan we eat bitter gourd, so this is an area of the world that understands how bitter can be delicious. I also wanted to put something bitter on top. But the dish can be painful if it’s too bitter, so I added the sweet celery root. Some customers says it’s bitter, some say the bitterness tastes great, others say it’s delicious when all of the flavors are enjoyed at the same time. Explaining the composition, it sounds very simple, but the balance of the flavors is quite subtle. The best is to get the reaction from the customers I think, from Taiwanese as well as customers from overseas.

SAJI: Is there something you want to convey to people from abroad through this cuisine?

Tahara: Yes, there is something. When I went to Italy, I experienced both good and bad things, and I realized that they don’t really know where Japan is. “Japan” is famous, but if you asked someone they might be like, “Um, around Taiwan?” I want people from Europe and America to know more about the East, and what kind of place Asia is, and I want to convey that we have a great culture. That’s why the subject of getting into the Asia 50 Best, or getting a Michelin star is so important. It’s not just to be famous. Although the reality is that if you are famous you have a higher chance of them listening to you.

SAJI: I would like to ask you your feelings about being a chef in Taiwan connected with the name of Florilege?

Tahara: We were launched as the Taiwan branch of Florilege even before we opened, and that is exactly what we are, and I don’t really have an opinion about it. I still have the same way of thinking as I did when I worked at Florilege, and that remains unchanged…I’m not sure what to say…does your question mean you wonder if I have some resistance to that?

SAJI: No, that wasn’t what it meant.

Tahara: Well, to be honest I want to use a name I am able to use. But for the sake of the store, and for my own sake as well. I don’t want to get weird about it, and say I’m only going there with my own power. I was given a good chance, and consent to use the name, so I think I should. In addition, I have the ability to make new relationships and go to places I haven’t been. But if you ask me, I will tell you that I’m not openly using the name, as well as with Logy’s PR. Last year, I started by making an SNS account by myself for the restaurant and posting pictures of looking for ingredients or information about reservations. But the rumors went around about the shop and through word of mouth we were booked full. That was because of the connection to Florilege. They have incredible power, I thought. Also, I felt a lot of pressure. Like I was being crushed. But that was because I had been thinking about it for all three of those years. I thought about how when I quit Florilege and move on to the next place, wherever I go I’ll still be known as “a sous-chef who worked at Florilege.” I wanted to work in a way that I wouldn’t feel embarrassed by that, so as practice I worked at events, and made sure I could make food that wasn’t just a copy of Florilege. If I liked the taste of course I might add in something here and there, but I don’t copy the food. But I think people around me can’t imagine the pressure I felt. I told everyone around me, “Don’t worry, I’ll be ok”, but I inside I was like, there’s no way everything’s just ok. I felt like I was dying (laughs).

SAJI: In addition it sounds like preparations were really tough. I understand you arranged all of the necessary items for the shop by yourself.

Tahara: That was necessary for experience. If you don’t experience the difficulty before opening the shop, you only know about the opening and that’s completely different. But it was seriously scary. The menu still wasn’t decided even two weeks before opening. I overthought it; what is correct, what should definitely to be there. The store’s concept was decided, but I wasn’t sure how to going about starting everything. The first impression is very important, and I thought if they weren’t satisfied from the very beginning, we might not continue getting reservations, and I was very set on succeeding. I didn’t consult with Chef Kawate either. I didn’t ask him to taste anything.

SAJI: So when Chef Kawate came to the restaurant in January, that was the first time he’d eaten the food there?

Tahara: Yes, it was the first time. As well the first time he came to the restaurant.

SAJI: Were you nervous?

Tahara: No, I wasn’t nervous. I know it’s a bit strange if I say I’m not nervous cooking for him but…somehow it’s a bit different.

SAJI: I see. Now it’s been one year, and looking forward to next year do you have any thoughts about it?

Tahara: Since it was only our first year, I was the head of cooking for the staff. Looking forward to next year, I’m planning to have the staff share some of the cooking duties, using the fire and such. Also rather than sharing recipes, I believe more in sharing experience. I really believe in this, but after they quit Logy, they’re all going to go different places you know. And I believe those experiences go with them onto the next step. For example as I mentioned before, about using a plate at the right temperature, I am very careful to teach this and get angry if they get the plate out too soon. But as you get used to this, using a cold plate starts to feel uncomfortable. When they go to the next place, they’ll definitely feel weird using a cold plate. Also for example, when you work you should think about the customers. If they go work at another restaurant and see staff who aren’t thinking about the customer, that should bother them. Those kind of very important things. If I can create that kind of awareness here I would feel like I had succeeded. Just cooking, you won’t change culture, or the food scene. Your own restaurant might prosper, but there will be no influence on the things around you. But your staff will go to the next restaurant.

SAJI: It’s people who do the work.

Tahara: Yes. If people like a certain way of doing things it will spread to others, and I think that’s how the scene in a country slowly changes, as well Japan must have changed that way too. I believe this is an opportunity to do that. Also, I’ve slowly begun to get an image of the flavor of the restaurant over this past year, studying various things.

 SAJI: Was it your first time to make a menu as a chef?

Tahara: Yes. People probably don’t realize this, but unless there is an event or some other opportunity, before becoming a chef you don’t really make your own food. The first time for me was during the time at Florilege. Trying to make something new with a certain image and having the food turn out completely different has happened to me tens of thousands of times, and I don’t like that so on my days off I test dishes over and over. I remake it until I’m satisfied, and then after introducing it on the menu look at the customer’s reaction, and then I start to feel a bit better. I think I’m doing relatively well at this point…and I just keep repeating this process. I’ve gradually begun to get an idea of what kind of impression I want the food to have at the restaurant.

SAJI: You’re job changed quite a bit.

Tahara: Yes. But I figured it would be like this. I thought I would do work like this.

SAJI: It sounds like things will continue to change. Please let me interview you again in the future.

End.

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