MELT-BANANA Interview (Part 2): Why a band with only two members is the best hardcore
MELT-BANANA has reached their 30th anniversary this year. It’s quite moving to think it has been so long since their impactful debut. However, their show on June 17th, with WRENCH, was filled with such tremendous power and cutting-edge energy that it blew away any sentimentality. To put it plainly, they were just as edgy as they were 30 years ago, and even in 2023, their noise still sharply claws at the fabric of the era. Born from the streams of hardcore punk, post-rock, grindcore, noisecore, and alternative, they continue to dialectically update the maximum values of hardness, loudness, noise, speed, and pop.
MELT-BANANA Interview (Part 1): Realities of Bands Much More Well-known Abroad than in Japan
In the second part of this interview with MELT-BANANA, they talk about why they became a two-piece vocal/guitar band, their song and sound production process, and the new album they are recording.
＊This article is an automatic AI translation of the original Japanese text, which was checked by a member of MELT- BANANA. Dai Onojma, the author of the original text, is responsible for any errors in translation or inappropriate expressions.
Why the drums are gone
――I've been meaning to ask, why did you stop using drums and bass in your music?
AGATA: Because they were gone...
YAKO: It always seemed to be a problem with the drums...
――A technical problem?
YAKO: No, just... no one was there to play them (laughs).
――It was hard to keep a drummer, wasn't it?
YAKO: Our music is really hard-hitting, and it's tough to keep up with the drumming. It's hard to find someone who can stick.
AGATA: From my perspective, every time the drummer changed, we had to reset and start over. Even if we had 100 practice sessions and started to play well together, if someone left, we'd be back to square one. For example, if we practice with a drummer 100 times, but he quits and we practice with a new drummer again, by the time that drummer finishes practicing 100 times, we have practiced 200 times. The gap between us and the new drummer is hard to fill. We have practiced with more than 10 drummers, and I have had enough of this repetition. I felt that if I had time to practice with a new drummer from scratch, I should use the time to write songs.
――So, the people who left did so on their own accord?
AGATA: Did we ever ask anyone to leave?
YAKO: Come to think of it, it doesn't seem like we ever asked anyone to leave. Now that you mention it... we had an American drummer named Dave who was great, but he was too busy with his other bands. We wanted to continue but couldn't.
AGATA: That would be challenging unless he moves to Japan, wouldn't it?
YAKO: When he was our drummer, we had to ask different Japanese drummers for live shows in Japan. The repetition of tasks like finding a new drummer, practicing together, and the like has become gradually exhausting. Moreover, when it comes to planning tours, it becomes even more hassle since we're on the road for about three months straight. That's when going on tour itself started to feel like a burden, and I felt it’s wrong.
――I see.
YAKO: Computers have become incredibly smart, allowing us to do a lot more. That's why we decided to continue as a duo. Originally, it was all programmed beats, you know?
AGATA: Right, before our first album, when we didn't have a drummer. We used noise sounds like "buzz" and "whoosh" as kick and snare drums.
YAKO: Back then, the technology wasn't there for live shows, but now it's quite possible.
AGATA: Once, when a drummer double-booked and couldn't play our live show, we tried using A-DAT for the drum sounds, but it didn't go well. Every now and then, we experimented with it, so it wasn’t uncomfortable to use programmed drums.
YAKO: AGATA always created our backing tracks, so we had all the programming data.
――Are you aiming for a traditional(physical) rock band feel with MELT-BANANA, or something different?
AGATA: I'm not sure... I like the idea of having a rock sound, some distortion.
―― For example, bands like Big Black or Sisters of Mercy ――I know it's an old example(laugh)――used rhythm machines not because they couldn't find drummers, but because they liked that sound. What about MELT-BANANA?
YAKO: We're open to using machine sounds if they are interesting. We're used to sounds resembling live drums, so maybe that's why they feel natural to us.
――Are you trying to emulate human drums or going for a different flavor?
AGATA: We're not necessarily trying to emulate human drums, but we do like that sound. I also love the sound of drum machines. Our previous albums have featured such sounds, but not emphasized.
YAKO: Drum machine sounds can be tricky to use.
――MELT-BANANA's live shows don't feel diminished by using programming or drum machines. However, they also don't give the impression of a human drummer playing. I'm curious about that balance.
AGATA: We don't specifically focus on drums in our new album. Previously, we had a vague image of how a drummer would play the song live. But now, we don’t care about that. Like overdoing drum patterns, or making it impossible for a human drummer…
――So, was the previous album "Fetch" still created with that in mind?
AGATA: Yes, it was. Some of the songs on that album were written when we still had a drummer, and we actually performed a few of them live. But the new material we're working on now is entirely developed since becoming a duo. Like, certain drum parts that would require two people if it were human drummers...
――Like needing four arms (laughs).
YAKO: Right. Previously, we had to hold back on using blast beats too much because it would be too difficult for a drummer, we were limiting the tempo.
AGATA: Our album "Bambi's Dilemma" (2007) had a slightly slower tempo because the drummer at that time couldn't play any faster. We tried to do interesting things within his speed range.
YAKO: When a new drummer comes in, our live shows have to adjust to their tempo.
――I see.So, the true potential of the two-person MELT-BANANA, without limits, will be fully unleashed in the next album.
AGATA: (laughs) Definitely. Before we started working on this new album, an American friend told me he was looking forward to hearing music that could only be done by the two of us. That got me thinking, 'He thinks such a thing!'" (laughs).
――Well, that's a normal reaction (laughs).
YAKO: "Fetch" was partially like that.
AGATA: Yes, the album we're currently working on is definitely influenced by that. We're focusing on what unique sounds we can produce with our current setup.
――When it comes to studio recordings, anything is possible without worrying about playing it. How do you approach that?
AGATA: We do consider how to play it.
YAKO: It's better if we can play it.
AGATA: Sounds that seem good in the studio can be too much live. We have to strip them down to feel good when played live and loud. So, we go back and forth, cutting sounds in the studio. Then, when listening at home, it can feel lacking. We're currently trying to find a balance where both are enjoyable.
"What, you want to be Shellac?"
――That's a big challenge for any artist. So, MELT-BANANA's process is AGATA creating tracks, then passing them onto YAKO for the vocals.
AGATA: And then making adjustments once the vocals are added.
――Is your production environment entirely digital (DTM)?
AGATA: Yes. But our process has changed significantly this time. When we thought about what we couldn't do with our previous style, we decided to experiment with synthesizer sounds instead of guitar samples, starting with drum machine and synth demos, then translating those into our band's sound.
ーーAre the demos and final versions very different?
AGATA: Very. Once the album is released, we might release the demos on Patreon. If the demo is 1, the album version is 100.
―― How so?
AGATA: The elements are different. A demo might be A-B-C, but the album version could be A-B-A-B-C-D. The structure, timeline, arrangements, and more are all different. Demos usually don't have vocals. So, after adding vocals, we add more sounds. Guitars and bass aren't in the demos, so they're completely different in that sense.
――So, the demos are just a starting point. When do vocals come in?
YAKO: Quite late in the process. If the completion is 10, vocals come in around 8.
AGATA: But we don't pursue any ideas that YAKO doesn't like from the demo stage. Going from 1 to 8 involves a lot of work.
――I remember you mentioning in a previous interview that YAKO is very critical. "What, you want to be Shellac?"
YAKO: (Bursts into laughter)
AGATA: Yes, I get feedback like that (laughs).
YAKO: I try to be careful with my words (laughs).
AGATA: It can hurt (laughs).
YAKO: But I haven't been saying that much recently.
AGATA: Maybe you realized you were hurting me through these interviews (laughs). So, we try to avoid comparisons as much as possible.
YAKO: Sometimes, after the vocals are added, you say things like “I wonder why the vocals are in here.”
AGATA: Sometimes, YAKO's unexpected interpretations are interesting. I don't give specific instructions on where to add vocals. I hand over the composition with a general idea of where vocals might go, but sometimes she adds them in completely different places and tempos. It's different from what I expected, but the song develops in an unexpected direction and becomes really interesting.
――That's how MELT-BANANA's unique identity is formed. Do you two discuss the direction of a song beforehand?
AGATA: Not really. I often refer to a quote by John Peel about The Fall: "always different, always the same." That's what I aim for with our band. Our sound, but always different; the same but with a twist.
――Like keeping MELT-BANANA's identity with fast tempos, high-pitched vocals, noisy guitars, but always adding something new.
AGATA: Right. Those characteristics aren't intentional; it's just what we can do.
YAKO: Exactly (laughs). Loving that is fundamental.
AGATA: We naturally prefer a fast tempo. If it's slow, it feels like the song drags on forever. I think that's just how we are. Aside from that, we try to avoid repeating the same things we've done in past albums. We might still be told it sounds 'the same as always,' but personally, I'm always seeking something different than before.
YAKO: Even when AGATA hands me something he's made, it never comes as something completely different from the past, but it always has a different feel, like, 'Oh, this is new!' It's not so much a discomfort as it is a surprise.
――YAKO, do you ever request specific types of songs from AGATA?
YAKO: Not much recently.
AGATA: Even if she did, it's not something I could easily do (laughs). Composers often have a stock of patterns, like certain chord progressions for sad moments, right? I pretty much lack those, so I start from zero. That means I can only produce something that I personally think is good.
――But that works because of the fundamental trust and solid common foundation the two of you have. If AGATA creates something he likes, YAKO can add vocals freely, and that creates good music.
YAKO: Somehow, we've naturally fallen into these roles.
――Has this dynamic remained unchanged since the days when there were four members?
YAKO: It hasn't changed. AGATA has always been the one to make the music.
――The duo setup feels more streamlined, doesn't it? Initially, the live performances as a duo seemed a bit unsettled, but gradually, it feels more refined, more focused.
AGATA: Recently, many people have only seen us perform as a duo.
YAKO: But at first, I was definitely worried. Just the two of us on stage, was that going to be okay?
AGATA: I used to joke, 'What if Slayer did the same thing?' (laughs) It would be impossible (laughs). But we're not Slayer, so it's fine (laughs).
――There is a strong consensus among the audience that heavy metal is physical music that uses the body, so it is difficult for a band with a structure like MELT-BANANA to be successful. but MELT-BANANA is not that kind of band. Rather, it is because there is value in breaking down such common sense and frameworks.
YAKO: Recently, there seem to be more duos, especially in America and Europe. When we tour, many of the support bands are duos. Maybe they book them because we're a duo, but it seems there are more bands using computers to create intense music than before.
――The influence of MELT-BANANA?
AGATA:I think the advancement in equipment is a big factor.
What Will the New Album Be Like?
――I understand it's still in the works, so you might not be able to say much, but what are you challenging yourselves with in the next album?
AGATA:The challenge is with the guitar. I've been pushing the limits of what I can do with the guitar. Making it sound like I can play things that I actually can't. How should I put it? (laughs) There's this guitar synthesizer-like effect, the SY300, that I'm using a lot. It produces these whirling sounds, almost as if it's playing fast passages with just one strum.
YAKO: I wonder if that's okay (laughs).
AGATA: I'm using that, but when you try it in a store, it feels like it lacks a personal touch. It's just an effect. So, I'm figuring out how to use it in a way that sounds like I'm playing it, even though I'm not.
――So, it's about mastering the equipment?
AGATA: Yeah.
――In other words, it's about whether you can control such equipment as if it were an extension of your own limbs.
AGATA: Yes, exactly. It's quite a difficult piece of equipment to use. There's this guitarist from Tera Melos, Nick Reinhart, whom I really admire. He has a different approach from mine, but we're on a similar path. He allocates synthesizer sounds to guitar strings, creating this impression with his guitar playing. My approach on this album is somewhat different, but I'm exploring what I want to do.
YAKO: You do love effects. 'Using this effect this way, that is me.'
AGATA: Yes, indeed. Ultimately, I'm doing the same thing, but now I can do things with this effect that I couldn't do before. That's what I'm working on.
――Few years ago, in a 'Guitar Magazine' article, they asked me to name the best guitarist in Japanese rock, and I mentioned AGATA.
YAKO: (laughs) Listen to this (laughs).
AGATA: What what? (laughs)
――Though I was the only one that mentioned AGATA.
AGATA: My basic skills are terrible, though (laughs). I'm not valued for that (laughs).
YAKO: I even wonder if you're really a guitarist (laughs).
――Was there a particular moment that led you to a completely different direction from fast playing or technical focus?
AGATA: Maybe it's because I learned piano as a child, up through high school. I hated practicing scales. I wanted to play for fun, play freely, but the teachers... There are plenty of skilled people.
――Yes.
AGATA: There are extremely talented classical musicians who can't make a living, right? I don't like scale practice, and I don't know if I'll be able to make a living from that, so I'd rather do things on the guitar that make me excited than practice scales. In middle school, a friend who loved metal showed me right-hand tapping techniques, but I loved the feedback sound the most.
――Ah.
AGATA: It felt great. That was a different vibe. I respect people who practice hard to achieve that. I have many skilled friends. But I thought it was impossible for me to aim for that among those friends. I wanted to do things that excited me... like 'Peeh!!' That's always been more fun. That's what I've always wanted to do.
YAKO: But you do try hard sometimes (laughs).
AGATA: During COVID, I practiced guitar seriously for the first time (laughs). I'd never really practiced picking. I didn't even know the basics. During the Covid, I stayed home all the time, so I was worried I might lose my ability to play. I watched basic practice techniques on YouTube. I knew how everyone practices for the first time, like moving up one fret at a time.
YAKO: You worked hard on it.
AGATA: I did that for about an hour every day for two months. Then I stopped because my joints started to hurt, but it was a valuable experience. I realized that practicing isn't bad. Recently, during live shows, I remember those practice sessions. When I'm playing hard, I suddenly think, 'Oh no, my pick is slipping! I need to hold it this way!'
――Has learning the correct way to hold a pick and play helped your performance?
AGATA: To an ordinary guitarist, this might sound trivial, but the pick position changes the tone. I hadn't thought much about that before. It's a beginner's discovery. I learned a lot from it.
――For example?
AGATA: Parts I used to play as 'Dadadada, dadadada,' I wasn't actually playing. The right way includes ghost picking. But when I do that, the rhythm sounds cleaner. Yet, the MELT-BANANA style has this roughness in my picking. I realized that's important. Oddly enough, a technically skilled guitarist might not be able to replicate the timing of my playing. They can't produce the same crude feel. Even if you try to play crudely on purpose, it's almost impossible to do it the same way every time (laughs).
YAKO: Like how a very skilled drummer can't necessarily play a good, cool eight-beat rhythm.
AGATA: That's true for drum programming too. Hand-beating it myself sometimes feels 'just right.'
―― So your unique sound, the AGATA sound, is perfectly fine as it is.
AGATA: Yes, I've come to accept that (laughs).
(Shibuya, Tokyo, 12 July 2023)
(Text by Dai Onojima English translation cooperation by Kazuhiro Taguchi)
[Live Schedule]
2024/1/4 at Shinjuku Loft (Tokyo,Japan)
with Guitar Wolf,Moreru
https://www.loft-prj.co.jp/schedule/loft/268266
2024/1/13
at Club Shaft (Sendai,Japan)
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