[English Version] The Current Situation LGBT People Talk About: In Order to Create a Society Embraces Diversity

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Our Purpose

Based on our awareness of the issues related to social minorities, we interviewed Kei Takahashi, who is a person who is a member of LGBT people, about LGBT and education, coming out issues from the perspective of the parties involved, welfare and minorities.

His Profile

After working as a nursery teacher, Mr. Takahashi worked as a childcare worker before founding BTOK in 2015 and co-founding FUKUFUKU+ Co., Ltd. in 2018. She also serves as an auditor/special researcher at the General Incorporated Association Disability Workstyle Research Institute, and currently, she has established a Type B employment continuation support facility at the General Incorporated Association FUKU・WARAI, where she engages in initiatives related to art with people with disabilities.

一般社団法人 FUKU・WARAI｜フクワライ

About LGBT and Education

Watanabe: I believe that education for children is important to create a society that accepts diversity in the future, but what are your thoughts on the current state of LGBT education?

Takahashi: I think that the education that you are doing now is different from the education that I have received, so I think that maybe it is better now. In the education I received, the words LGBT, diversity, gay, and homosexuality did not appear. In Japanese language textbooks, it is taken for granted that a couple has children, and in biology time, we are taught that we were born to prosper offspring, and when I was told that, it was true, but I also felt that I, who was born gay, was not doing anything for the world. Not only gays, but also women who cannot have children or choose not to marry, so I think there are people who feel the same way. Therefore, while I think that words such as homosexuality are still few in education, I feel that it is wrong to use such words too much. Ultimately, I hope we can move away from the assumption that men must inherently like women. Instead, it would be great if it becomes natural to ask women, ‘Is there someone you like?’ rather than ‘Do you have a boyfriend?’

Watanabe: So, do you think it is important for LGBT education in the future not to adhere to a fixed idea?

Takahashi: Let's see. I'm gay, so I can only speak from a gay standpoint, but there are probably lesbians and people who are not interested in sex at all, so I think it's better to flatten it out with consideration for those people. It's difficult, but I think it's important not to stick to a fixed idea.

Watanabe: In relation to this education, I believe that education from an early age is also important, but what do you think can be done to make children more aware of diversity in early childhood education?

Takahashi: Let's see. I'm currently involved in welfare, but at first, I was a childcare worker. Therefore, when it comes to childhood, I think that the color of toilet slippers, which is often said in nursery schools, "boys should wear blue" and "girls should wear red" will be imprinted if you do it too much. Speaking of being easy to understand, it is indeed easy to understand. You can choose from a variety of colors for school bags, but I feel that the fact that a man wearing pink seems a little uncomfortable is related to the imprint from childhood. I can't say for sure, but I think it's strange that it has to be this way, and I think it's different because it's a boy or a girl. If it's too radical, it will end up being "who owns the Hinamatsuri" or "who owns the samurai helmet on Children's Day?", but I feel that there is an imprint of childhood, so I think it's good to expand the options that allow children to choose from a variety of things. For example, if there's a boy playing house, you could say, ‘It looks like you enjoy playing house. Do you like it? How about considering becoming a chef in the future?’ Similarly, if there's a girl who enjoys rough play and playing outside, you could say, ‘You seem strong and energetic. It's great! I hope you'll protect others in the future.’

Watanabe: I also feel like I had the fixed idea since childhood that boys are associated with blue and girls with red, but I felt that going too far might be challenging.

Coming Out Issues from The Perspective of The Parties Involved

Watanabe: Compared to before, I feel that there are changes such as more colors and educational opportunities, but do you feel that there has been a change in the acceptance of LGBT people from the perspective of the people concerned in terms of daily life?

Takahashi: Personally, I think I've become very tolerant. When I was a child, I can't remember their names, but those who were labeled as gay or homosexual on TV were often portrayed as gay-ish character talents. The catchphrase "Here comes the flamboyant one. Disgusting." was considered one of the laughs on TV. And as an adult, I understand that it was perhaps for increasing TV ratings or making it more understandable, like being the epitome of being gay or homosexual. However, during my childhood, at a time when I couldn't openly discuss being gay, seeing those portrayals became the only image of what we considered as adults. As I grew up, I thought that if I were to say I'm gay, people would find it off-putting or that I would become that kind of presence. However, lately, on TV, personalities like Matsuko-san are not laughed at by everyone; some are even praised. Moreover, there are more and more public figures in the entertainment industry and sports announcing that they are gay. They feel more integrated into society than before, and now there is a clear adult image to aspire to. I also sense that there is a society accepting of this. Therefore, personally, I think it has improved compared to before.

Watanabe: Yes, that's true. I've seen a lot of celebrities who have come out recently on the news, so I thought that was certainly the case.

Watanabe: Do you think there has been a change in the difficulty of coming out as a matter of coming out?

Takahashi: I’m not sure, but I think the difficulty of coming out is still very deep-rooted. It depends on the person, but there are people who can come out and people who can't, and I was more of a person who couldn't come out, so I came out of necessity, but in the end, I think it was good. So, overall, I personally don't recommend coming out that much, and I think it's okay to come out when you want to, as long as you're in an environment where it's okay to do it.

Watanabe: I see. It's not always good to be able to come out.

Takahashi: I tell everyone, but there are people who come out and are cut off from their parents, or people who have decided not to say anything anymore because they may be told things like "when will you be cured" or "go to the hospital" because of the lack of understanding of your parents' generation. It's difficult to say precisely because of the close relationship, and in my case, I was really afraid that if I came out, it might sadden my parents, and I couldn't even show my grandson's face anymore, and I felt that I owed it to myself that I was gay. Some gay friends say it's filial piety not to say it because you don't know how they'll react.

Watanabe: It's not that it's easy to come out just because of a close relationship.

Takahashi: Also, I'm from the countryside of Nagano, and I was worried that by coming out, not only my parents but also my nephews and nieces would be bullied. I don't want my nephews and nieces to be bullied because I am gay. So, I don't think it's that different from the fact that it's hard to say. Partly due to the influence of television, it may have become easier to tell my friends, but I don't think the fundamental point has changed.

Watanabe: I see. In terms of that level of tolerance, it is not advisable to use coming out as a benchmark too much.

Watanabe: I think that coming out can create prejudice.

Takahashi: Let's see. As you just mentioned, just because you come out doesn't mean that you're going to change 180 degrees right from tomorrow, and the person who came out won't change that much. Seeing coming out as an indicator is an easy-to-measure definition, but there was a time when I wondered if it was a good idea to come out or not. Ultimately, I hope everyone can say it. One of the things that made me uncomfortable when I came out was that I was told, "I'm glad you came out," and "I wish I had told everyone more." But. Normal heterosexual people don't walk around saying, "I like women," but I wondered why I had to walk around saying, "I like men." I think it's a different story, and I think it would be nice if people could say, "It doesn't matter who likes whom."

Watanabe: I read Mr. Takahashi's past interview articles, and I saw that the criteria for coming out in 2019 and the need for the power of those who do and those who accept them are also necessary. In relation to that, I would like to ask you about your thoughts on the outing issue.

Takahashi: I think it's a difficult problem. As I mentioned earlier, if I come out as gay, there is no problem if I announce it to everyone, but for example, if I only come out to Ms. Watanabe, Ms. Watanabe will have to keep the same secret as me. Ms. Watanabe shouldn't tell anyone else that I'm gay. I'm sure that if you were talking to a group of normal friends, even if there was something you could talk about, you would have to deal with the consultation caused by coming out alone. When I couldn't stand it and had to consult with people, I wondered if it would be an outing. It's also difficult to come out because you're thinking about the person, but you're afraid that you're going to make this person carry the pain that you can't tell others.

Watanabe: Can you think of any countermeasures?

Takahashi: One way to prevent outing, in my opinion, is to have more administrative services, mental health helplines, or places for consultation where both the individuals directly involved and those who have come out can access in more closed environments. If there are more accessible channels for consultation, not only for the individuals directly involved but also for those who have come out to, I believe it could potentially reduce the occurrence of outings. Having outlets available for consultation seems essential for both parties involved.

Watanabe: It's important to create a place where people can talk to each other. In the course of my studies, I learned the word ally, and I think it is important to develop the ability to understand and empathize with that position, right?

Takahashi: Let's see. There was only one thing I was thinking about Ally. When I talk about being gay, there are people who say, 'It's okay because I'm an ally,' and that 'I understand because I have a lot of gay friends.' However, even if you're an ally, since we just met, we don't know each other well. I want allies to understand that it doesn't mean they can talk about anything just because they're allies. For example, I don't think it's possible to get along with someone who goes to the same school right away, or if you get along really well with someone who is there in Japan abroad and confide in them all their secrets. I'm glad that they're learning about LGBT and trying to understand me, but even if they ask me to talk to them about anything because they're allies, I think it's only after we get to know each other.

Watanabe: Yes, that's true. I think it's important not to look at sexual minorities as a category, but to look at them as individuals.

Welfare and Minorities 

Watanabe: Next, I would like to ask you about minorities from the perspective of welfare.  

Takahashi: First, if we talk about LGBT people in the field of disability, they are a double minority, and I have several minority friends who have disabilities, and there are also gay friends who are a hearing impaired. People who have intellectual disabilities and say that they probably like men. As it is called able-bodied people have all kinds of tools to meet people, but I think that because of their disabilities, it is difficult for people with disabilities to enter the community. Whether you're homosexual or heterosexual, there is a big barrier to having a disability and having difficulty joining the community, so I believe we need to get rid of that first. When people say that the person who committed the murder was a mentally ill person, they get a kick out of it, but even though there are far more murders by able-bodied people, people with disabilities are still scared and be considered as it is hard to know what they're thinking. They have never been involved with it, they don't have any knowledge, so they think that people with disabilities are unknown. I personally would like to have a relationship with them in that regard. For example, I would like to see more opportunities for people with disabilities and able-bodied people to learn together, which are currently divided into people with them in elementary and junior high schools. Also, it is good to have a place where they can inevitably get involved. As you said earlier, we don't see people as individuals, not LGBT people, but Takahashi, and not people with disabilities, but Mr. Tanaka. I think it would be nice if there were more connections in the field of disability as well.  

Watanabe: What kind of activities are you currently involved in?

Takahashi: Right now, I'm working at a place where people with disabilities come to work, which is called Employment Continuation Support Type B. When you get a job, you will work under the protection of the Labor Standards Act, so you have minimum wages and rest periods. the Employment Continuation Support Type B, however, is a facility there are people who is difficult for people to work in places where they cannot leave work during their hours or cannot work for many hours in a row, so to speak, it does not comply with the Labor Standards Act.  I ask the people who come there to draw pictures. I'm working to spread art more in the world, and as an art rental company to deliver them to companies. It's a structure in which the money to be exchanged is used to pay the salaries of the people who come to work. Through this work, I have been involved with the General Affairs Department and companies. Then, in the community, people seem Mr. Tanaka of Atelier Knitt will come instead of people with disabilities today, and maybe when the staff members are having trouble outside, Mr. Tanaka may be asked, "May I help you, Mr. Tanaka?" We are working to expand the number of people who are not welfare staff, but also other people who can be involved in the community.

Watanabe: It's a wonderful activity. What kind of companies will receive pictures of people with disabilities too?

Takahashi: For instance, KOKUYO. In terms of areas around here, it's Yoko Uchida, a major office furniture manufacturer. We also have them put in hospitals and tax accountant offices.  

Watanabe: What would you like to do in the future?  

Takahashi: My father suddenly developed a visual impairment one day, and he could only see as much as the hole in a library card. With this disability, his job options became limited, and the only work he could do was as a shiatsu massage therapist. He had originally trained to be a chef and had finally opened his own restaurant. However, due to his disability and the belief that he couldn't make much profit, he decided to work as a massage therapist instead. This made me wonder why having a disability meant narrowing down job opportunities. For instance, if you were born in Tokyo, you could access various facilities for people with disabilities using buses or trains. You could choose where to go. But if you were born in a rural area, your options would be limited to nearby facilities. Often, the available jobs would be things like stuffing envelopes or cleaning parks. While these jobs might be suitable for some people, if someone wanted to do something else, like us moving to Tokyo to pursue different opportunities, it would be challenging. Could they move alone? Could their family come with them? It would be tough. So, we started our current activities in the Koto ward first. But I aspire to create more job opportunities and hobbies in various regions so that people can choose their professions or interests. As a starting point, we are focusing on art.

Watanabe: I thought that if the job of people with disabilities in Japan could become something they love or something that is visible to the public, it would increase their involvement with us and help them achieve their dreams and self-fulfillment.

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After the interview 

Each of Ms. Takahashi's comments was filled with kindness. From his own experiences and unique perspective, we learned that Mr. Takahashi is a person who is taking action to create a world in which it is easy for sexual minorities and people with disabilities to live and their dreams to come true. I learned that it is important not to look at them as unique individuals, but to relate to them as human beings living in the same modern world. I asked some vague questions and got lost in words, but Mr. Takahashi was kind enough to offer words of encouragement, and I was able to spend a meaningful time. Thank you very much.