2023 Tobokegao Round Table Interview

Lead

Japanese version → https://note.com/tobokegao/n/n61cec13f4e61

To coincide with the release of his third album "TOBOX" and the "TOBOX Release Party," we conducted an interview to review TOBOX's past activities. The interviewer, hally, who performed at the "TOBOX Release Party" in Sapporo, Akaobi, and writer Sato participated in the interview. hally and Akaobi talked to Tobokegao from a professional perspective, including chiptune and its surroundings, while Sato talked to him from a more general perspective about his music activities.

The interview took place in a rented space above a studio that Tobokegao used to use when he was in a band. The interview lasted more than three hours at this memorable place. The interview is divided into three chapters: "Looking back on the third album "TOBOX"", "Re-holding the Game Boy," and "'Tobokegao as a medium”.

(Interviews by hally, Akaobi, Haruka Sato; Text by Haruka Sato)

Introduction of interview participants

Tobokegao

One of the leading chiptune artists of today. He released his third album "TOBOX" in October 2022, held a "TOBOX Release Party" in February 2023, and is holding a "Tobokegao 30th Birthday Party" on July 27, 2023.

Twitter https://twitter.com/to6okegao

IG https://www.instagram.com/tobokegao/

Haruhisa "hally" Tanaka

A video game music historian/researcher, Haruhisa Tanaka started his career as a writer in 2001 and launched "VORC" to popularize the term and concept of chiptune in Japan. His publications include "All About Chiptune" and "Game Music Disc Guide". He is also active as a chip artist and has been involved in many remixes and soundtrack productions of game music.

Twitter https://twitter.com/hallyvorc

Akaobi

Bright in the chip music, tracker music, and demo scene, including music created using the SID music chip in the Commodore 64, an 8-bit home computer released in 1982. He also translates related articles. Contributed to "The Essentials Guide to Vaporwave," published by New Masterpiece.

Twitter https://twitter.com/aka_obi

Haruka Sato

Writer for TURN, ANTENNA, and other publications.

Twitter https://twitter.com/FqqrD

IG https://www.instagram.com/ha___ruuu/

Looking back on the third album "TOBOX"

Looking back on TOBOX, Tobokegao's third album released in October 2022, we asked him about the background of his arrangements, how he came to incorporate songs, the origin of his name, and other matters that form the basis of his activities.

TOBOKEGAO'S HISTORY

Akaobi: Band arrangements are one of the characteristics of your works. I felt that this characteristic was fully expressed in "TOBOX" as well. I heard that you were actually in a band.

Tobokegao: I was indeed in a band, but before that I was actually a singer on Nico Nico Douga. About 15 or 16 years ago, when Nico Nico Kumikyoku became popular, I thought it would be fun to be a singer, so I bought an audio interface and recording equipment by myself and started singing along with karaoke recordings and posting them. I was having fun introducing it to people I felt comfortable within the niche geeky community, but suddenly, It was leaked outside of the community and outside the internet that I was active as a singer.

hally, Akaobi, and Sato: !

Tobokegao: At that time, otaku were still subtly not accepted by the public, so the incident caused some people to become unfriendly to me and I began to dislike music.

hally: I would've started distrusting people.

Tobokegao: That's right. Later, when I was in my second year of high school, a classmate from junior high school who knew about the "Nico Nico Douga incident" thought I could do stuff music related, and said to me, "You should be the vocalist of my band! You're the only one who can do it!". So I joined the band out of necessity, but the member's instruments had not been decided, and none of us could compose well. So I was assigned an instrument, and I had no choice but to compose the music. By the way, my instrment was rhythm guitar and high vocals.

Sato: Was the band working seriously to make its debut?

Tobokegao: Yes, we were. But after several experiences of passing the first round of the SENKO RIOT contest but not making it to the second round, I thought, "Don't we have to write more commercial sounding music?", "I can't make it because I'm not a good drummer!" and the bands internal relationship became tangled with anxiety and frustration. To begin with, the bass vocalist likes Kobukuro, the bass player likes BUMP OF CHICKEN, and the drummer likes X JAPAN, and we had to somehow put them together to make it work.

Akaobi: That sounds very difficult...

Tobokegao: So I was playing J-ROCK kind of music, but by the time I was a freshman in college, the situation where I had to write songs to suit other people's taste was getting too serious, and it was tough period. I eventually grew sick of it.

DISTANCE FROM VOICE AND SINGING

Sato: Starting out as a singer in the way you did on Nico Nico Douga, then moving on to become a vocalist in a band, I feel that the fact that your voice and singing are featured so prominently on your third album, "TOBOX," is a strong return to your roots.

Akaobi: When I received the offer to perform at the Sapporo version of the "TOBOX Release Party," I had in mind that it was the music of Commodore64 that led me to meet Tobokegao and the aspect of "TOBOX" that featured his voice and singing, I was thinking of a set list with synthetic voices as the keyword. I think that this resulted in a synergy with the approach of the performers, including Yagishiro, who used VOCALOID, who performed in the Tokyo version.

Tobokegao: Yes, I think so. I wasn't aware of it, but I feel that the Tokyo version had a cast of performers whose voices were featured. Katsushika Syusshin combined KK Slider-style "Animal Crossing"-type vocals with the group sounds, and konamiscc (a.k.a. memowave), who was invited from Mexico, sang live vocals at the end.

Akaobi: In the time period from "Being Rusty" being released in 2020 to "TOBOX" in 2022. I have the impression that lyrics and vocals have become an integral part of Tobokegao's work. What had remained latent as melody in the band arrangements up to that point seems to have manifested itself as lyrics and vocals all at once. At what point did your awareness of adding vocals grow?

Tobokegao: To start a little bit earlier than that period of time, I had a lot of mentally tough times at work when I was living in Chiba in 2016 or 2017. So the next year I resigned and took a break until I was back in good shape, but during that time the COVID pandemic really started hitting hard. So I didn't have to think about social things for a while, so I had some free time.

hally: So you were given a bit of an extended period of time unexpectedly?

Tobokegao: Yes, I did. I had more free time than before, and since I like singing, I was wondering what it would be like to make a song with vocals, and since I had started using M8 Tracker at the time, I thought it would be interesting to add vocals to songs i made using it! I thought, "Let's sing!". So, I made instrumental music that had a sense of withdrawal with COVID in mind as a form of self-medication, and I started singing alot after releasing my second album, "Room To Room" (2020).

Akaobi: You've raised the pitch of your own singing voice, haven't you? For example, there are alot of people who have other people provide vocals on their songs and release them under their own name. Is it because you think it is important to sing in your own voice?

Tobokegao: Even if i raise the pitch, it is still my own voice, so I think I can sing as I intend. If I were to have someone else sing it, I think the lyrics would be completely different.

Sato: Your processed high voice is often heard in songs that are described as hyperpop-like. I actually listened to "TOBOX" as music derived from hyperpop.

Tobokegao: I am embarrassed to listen to my own voice, so I hide that embarrassment. I have been doing this since I realized that if I raised the key by four, I would sound like Miki Tanabe of GUITAR VADER. It is true that high-energy songs may have a high affinity for hyperpop.

Sato: You mentioned that you made instrumental music in a self-therapeutic way and then started singing, but did you ever consider that singing could be self-therapeutic?

Tobokegao: I didn't really think of it that way. Actually, when I am pent up mentally, all I can make is noise. I can make noise without thinking too hard, and making noise itself is a stress reliever. Noise is easier to express changes in emotion than singing because you can dramatically change the sound with a little manipulation. But I often create songs that support myself, so if you ask me, singing may be an act of self-counseling.

Akaobi: Looking back on your catalog up to the present, "Circuit Bending GB," released in 2019 under the name Bendelic Freaks, is a work that collectively presents a different vector of pursuit from band arrangements and singing. At that time, were you in the phase of creating noise?

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. There are people who make circuit-bending devices for early Game Boy consoles that make a beeping noise when a button is pressed or a slow-motion sound when a knob is turned. "Circuit Bending GB" was created when I received that Game Boy and wanted to use it to relieve a little stress.

Sato: Were there any other periods when you were creating noise works?

Tobokegao: Before "Circuit Bending GB," there was a time when I was so mentally down that I couldn't perform live at "PROJECT MAGIC CANVAS!" I asked sdhizumi, who was at the event, to put on a mask of my icon and operate the device on my behalf. I asked him to do it because I thought it was the only live performance direction I could do at that time.

I want you to hear me complain a little to the tune of a song

Akaobi: I think the base mood of your songs, especially those with lyrics, is fatigue, boredom, lethargy, and resignation. I don't think of them as simply negative, but in general they are easily regarded as negative. How have you dealt with such feelings?

Tobokegao: I just said straight what I was thinking at the time, so it's more like a complaint than a confrontation. I'm sorry, but I'd like you to listen to the song as an extension of my complaining.

hally: You don't have a strong message you want to convey?

Tobokegao: No, I don't have a strong message. I just want the listener to listen to the words that pop out in time with the melody. I don't want to give a strong message to the listener anymore.

Akaobi: Regarding the message, the song "Yomi De Ashibumi" was first released in an instrumental version, and the vocal version was released later. So the title "Yomi De Ashibumi" was given before the lyrics were added. In such a case, how do the title and the song tie together to come up with the words?

Tobokegao: The reason why the lyrics of that song came about is that a fan who used to listen to my songs committed suicide, although it is a rather heavy subject. It wasn't that we didn't get along well, and I didn't direct my tweets at him, but I think I sometimes tweeted things that made him feel down, and I thought that maybe my words had an effect on him. Reflecting on that, I thought that there was more I could have said before he died, and I wanted to write a song that would give me a little time, like an additional time before death, so I wrote the title "Yomi De Ashibumi(English: Stepping still in the Hades)" first. But it took me about a year to come up with the lyrics. It wasn't until a breakup i went through that I finally came up with the lyrics. I asked the person who had originally drawn my icon to create an icon for my T-shirt, but there seemed to be a difference in our understanding of what was acceptable to use, and our relationship was severed. I realized that I had done the same thing at another event, and that regret led me to the lyrics all at once.

SHARING MUSIC AND COLLABORATING

Sato: How did you meet the people you are collaborating with on this album?

Tobokegao: First, hey, ily! offered me to do the opening narration for "Psychokinetic Love Songs" (2022), and I included my own narration. After that, I told them that I didn't want any compensation money and I wanted them to collaborate on my song as well, and they participated in "To Quit" this time. PROJECT V/R Converters was doing an interesting experiment of adding an audio commentary as a bonus to their albums, and I participated in that. I asked them to arrange "Dot Matrix Clock" in the same vein. It would be a shame to end the project after receiving a reward in the form of money, so we interact with each other through music in this way, taking advantage of our mutual inspirations.

Sato: Do you often collaborate with overseas artists?

Tobokegao: Yes, I do. First of all, I believe that the way we interact in the community is different between Japan and overseas. I feel that in Japan, there are more connections through communication than through music, but overseas, I feel that there is more communication and connections through music. Maybe I feel that way partly because I am not fluent in English.

Sato: I would like to hear more about this.

Tobokegao: In Japan, the main focus is the desire to communicate with the artists themselves, and I often have the impression that music is used as a tool for that purpose. Overseas, the main focus is on creating music, and I have the impression that interest in the artists themselves comes along with the music.

Akaobi: In Japan, I think that first of all, there is a common premise, and then many people are motivated to do something together.

Tobokegao: I think so. That is one of the reasons why my friendships are becoming more and more overseas. I think I am getting away from the Japanese community a little bit.

Sato: It seems that you will be making more songs with overseas artists.

Tobokegao: That's right. The number of artists we support through collaborations and labels is currently about 50-50 between Japanese and overseas artists.

ORIGIN OF "TOBOKEGAO"

Sato: The artwork for "TOBOX" is the face that symbolizes Tobokegao. I would like to ask you about the artwork and the Twitter icon, but before that, I would like to know why you are active under the name "Tobokegao".

Tobokegao: When I first went to a studio to practice with my band, I had to register my name, and one of the five hiragana characters I used each time was "Tobokegao. At that time, the studio receptionist said to me, "Tobokegao is a good name," so I decided to use "Tobokegao" when I worked alone.

Akaobi: So that's how it was. As the name includes the word "kao(English: face)", from the beginning of your activities to the present, I think the icon of Tobokegao's face has become a meme. To what extent did you intend to do that?

Tobokegao: I've made memes of myself here and there lol. For example, if three magnets are lined up in a row it looks like the face of my icon. When I repeated this kind of thing over and over again, it became a meme. I like to repeat things over and over again. That is why I liked how Shibata(from Pasocom Music Club) kept repeating the same thing on Twitter. I feel that repetition becomes rapidly interesting after a certain period of time. So I sometimes incorporate it when I create songs.

Akaobi: You do your own designing, but how did you meet all the designers and illustrators you have been involved with, such as CASTPIXEL, えびです, migmint, toyoya, Froyo Tam, etc.?

Tobokegao: First of all, fundamentally, I like designs that look like children's drawings, and I am not good at designs that are strangely tied down by society. To meet designers and illustrators of my taste, I look for people who collect such designs on Twitter.

Sato: So you search using information that has already been compiled as a starting point?

Akaobi: In addition to the icon of Mr. Tobokegao, the colors are unified in blue and yellow from around "Being Rusty" in 2020 to "TOBOX". I have the impression that this unification of colors directly represents the sense of unity in your recent works.

Tobokegao: I reduced the number of colors simply because I thought I did not have a good sense of color, and also because, as with chiptunes, it is more beautiful to reduce the number of colors to the utmost limit than to add a lot of strange clutter.

Sato: Did you use blue and yellow for the icons for the same reason?

Tobokegao: The original icon is a character created using the Biore Mama icon creation tool. The colors of Biore Mama were blue and yellow, so I used them as they were. The icon is based on a photo of my twin-tailed sister when she was a child and evolved into the current icon.

Akaobi: Do you have a name for your twintail character?

Tobokegao: Tobokegao-chan was suggested by kfaraday as a good name for the twintail character. At first, I was going to do it as a unit, with a female vocalist and a gameboy. I remember now that there was a time when I thought I would have someone else sing and I would just play with the Game Boy. In the beginning, it was called Tobokegao No. 2. But I soon decided to forget about that and changed my name to Tobokegao.

PICKING UP THE GAME BOY AGAIN

Looking back on the process from when he resumed his musical activities with the Game Boy and LSDj to his production using the M8 Tracker, we asked him about what he values in his songwriting, the roots of his musicality, and other matters that form the core of his production.

Those were the days when I had fun

Akaobi: Your solo career using the Game Boy began in earnest in 2014. How did you come across the Game Boy and LSDj as a means of composing music?

Tobokegao: I got sick of being in a band and I wanted to go back to the old days......! I remember the most fun I had was when I was playing the Game Boy growing up, so I came up with the idea to compose music on the Game Boy, I had no choice.

Sato: You mentioned that your favorite designs and illustrations are those that are "good at not being tied down by society," and when I heard that you started making music on the Game Boy as an escape from reality, I was convinced.

Tobokegao: That is exactly right. All my hobbies are an escape from reality.

hally: By that time, you realized that it was possible for anyone to compose music on the Game Boy, didn't you?

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. I liked Game Boy Camera, and there was a mini-game for creating songs on Game Boy Camera, so I knew I could create songs. Then I did a search for "Game Boy songwriting tool," and LSDj came up, and I found information that it was based on the Game Boy Camera, so I thought I could use it, too.

Sato: Did you learn the technical aspects on your own by researching on the Internet?

Tobokegao: Yes, I did. Surprisingly, I found a lot of information just looking around various sites. After looking up information, I learned LSDj myself mostly by inputting data manually by hand and covering songs by ear. I was a little lucky because I was able to fine-tune the sound to get it closer to what I wanted it to sound like.

Sato: Do many people fail there?

hally: Some people don't even get to that point and have difficulty with the software from the very beginning, or they lose heart soon after starting up the software.

Akaobi: Just as Tobokegao started composing music on his own and was basically able to complete his subsequent activities on his own, a major common denominator of LSDj musicians is that the majority of them are solo. I believe that LSDj is a unique software that has a background of solo musicians who gradually gained musical fame and financial independence due to the feature that composition and performance can be completed by one person on one machine. At the transition point when you moved from playing in a band to LSDj, did you want to become an instrumentalist or did you have a stronger singer-songwriter self-identification?

Tobokegao: At that time, I was already thinking of becoming an instrumentalist because I was in a band and I was sick of singing. So I didn't do any singing for a while.

FROM LSDJ TO M8 TRACKER

Akaobi: About two years ago, I shifted my main means of production from LSDj to M8 Tracker, what is the current position of LSDj production for you?

Tobokegao: Even though the M8 Tracker is my main means of production, there are certain sounds that cannot be produced without Game Boy. Noise is one of them. Also, the Game Boy has a channel called "waveform memory" that allows me to write my own waveforms and create any sound I want, so I can't give it up.

hally: If you create the ideal sound with today's hardware, the characteristic noise will disappear. It is possible to create a sound that is quite similar to the original, but it lacks the roughness.

Tobokegao: That's right. When I want that kind of sound, I definitely use a Game Boy. By the way, I hear that the M8 Tracker will have a waveform memory function in the future. I'm looking forward to seeing more and more updates and features!

Akaobi: Since the introduction of the M8 Tracker, I feel that Tobokegao's acoustic preferences have become stronger. I feel that the dynamics and three-dimensionality of dance music-like sounds have receded more, and that you value a fairly flat listening experience, similar to the acoustics of commercial music in the 90s. I think some of that is helped by the special qualities of FM sounds. There is also the "PURE MIDI" concept/project that you presented, which emphasizes the timbre of unprocessed sounds.

Tobokegao: You are right about the '90s. As is the case with the "100 Musical Works That Influenced Me by Tobokegao", which I picked out myself, it seems that I just want to create a mish-mash of sounds that I like. So, for example, if it is a guitar sound, I would use an FM sound source to create a sampling of 90's guitar sounds, or I would recreate J-pop strings like GiRLPOP using an FM sound source. I make songs with all of these sounds, so there is a sense that I am filling the songs with only the sounds I like.

NICO NICO DOUGA AND THE SOUNDS OF THE 90S

Akaobi: Personally, I have a strong image of Tobokegao that feels very 90s, and the "100 Musical Works That Influenced Me by Tobokegao" was just like that image in my head. When we met, I didn't feel much age difference between us, partly because I grew up listening to music from the late 90s.

Tobokegao: I see.

Akaobi: From your generation, for example, I think you knew COIL and al.ni.co later, but how did you consume music from the 90s to around 2000?

Tobokegao: Actually, it was Nico Nico Douga.

Akaobi: I see.

Tobokegao: I often watched the videos of a person named Mogumogu Fuyodo who was on Nico Nico Douga. While working as an animation artist in the Eastern style, he was making animations of cute moving Eastern characters using music by maniacal bands and artists from the 90s that had nothing to do with the Eastern style, such as SUPER BUTTER DOG and Tateki Kobayashi, as BGM. I was greatly influenced by the music in those animations. Incidentally, Mogumogu Fuyodo, who is supposed to be a good artist but creates animations with terrible drawings, also influenced me a lot in terms of visuals.

hally: I had some familiarity with the music listed in the "100 Musical Works That Influenced Me by Tobokegao" except for the more recent ones, but after skimming through the list, I realized that there were no lines and they were all dots. I wondered if they were influenced by something and didn't listen to music in the way of following tags. It confirmed once again that this is the way the Nico Nico Douga generation listens.

Tobokegao: That's right. I don't listen to music in a single line. When I was listening to Nirvana, I would listen to all of Kurt Cobain's influences, but I didn't get many hits from that. Then I thought that if I looked up the music on the dots, I would get more hits.

Akaobi: As you mentioned earlier with Mogumogufuyodo's name, is it similar to when you search for your favorite type of designers and illustrators on Twitter, or do you start with someone who knows the music you are interested in and expand your search from there?

hally: I felt that the way of getting clues is completely different from the way of listening to music, which starts from something and expands, and does not start directly from the music itself. It's like you have all kinds of contacts.

Tobokegao: That's right.

hally: For example, where did you discover Yumi Tanimura's music?

Tobokegao: She sang a song from a show called "3 Chome no Tama" I liked it alot and covered it as well.

hally: Yumi Tanimura, come to think of it, is an anime singer. PandA is also really good.

Tobokegao: Moreover, "10th PandA anniversary Kuropanda/Shiropanda" is a GiRLPOP.

hally: Where did you learn about the band "Meat Beat Manifesto"?

Tobokegao: I heard their album "Actual Sounds + Voices" during my personal revival of Big Beat and found it addictive.

hally: If you listen a little, you can find out how you came to know each song, but the vectors of digging for each one are completely different, and it doesn't feel like you are digging in an easy-to-understand linear context.

Tobokegao: I guess I listen to music as if I were trying to find good pieces amongst all the other pieces.

Akaobi: Do you have any experience of following the music of your generation by checking music magazines or the radio?

Tobokegao: Not so much. My parents used to listen to the radio a lot, so when I heard a song I liked, I would look it up and listen to it, but there were few songs that really caught my attention. That is why the Internet is the best place for me.

Sato: Besides anime and Nico Nico Douga, what other media did you use to get information about music?

Tobokegao: Twitter. I try to look at all the accounts that are posting information about the music I like.

Sato: I see. I think with a few people you can still understand the context, but you were checking so many people that you lost track, right?

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. Each person has a context for the music they like, but because I look at them all separately on the timeline, I think it all gets mixed up and becomes incomprehensible. Are there not many people who listen this way?

hally: I think it is a generational difference. I have not seen such a striking example as you have, but I have seen many people from the Nico Nico Douga generation who listen to the outlandish and the ordinary side by side.

Tobokegao: I see.

hally: Later on, with the Youtube generation, it becomes easier to follow recommendations from the Youtube side, but the Nico Nico Douga generation is a blurred and mysterious existence in my mind. It's very interesting.

Tobokegao: I am in the middle of the Nico Nico Douga generation. I created an account when Nico Nico Douga had just started.

Sato: When did you start watching Nico Nico Douga?

Tobokegao: I registered on the Nico Nico Nico Douga Beta when I was in junior high school, so I think it was around 2010.

(TL Note: There were two seperate Nico Nico's one launching purely in Japanese in 2006 called nicovideo.jp, and one called Niconico.com around 2011 with a UI in english which Tobokegao is referencing here)

hally: But I don't see any so-called Nico Nico Douga anthemic songs at all.

Tobokegao: That's right. Maybe I didn't really fall into that category.

Akaobi: As for what constitutes him, Tobokegao mentions cheat bugs in his Twitter profile, rather than Nico Nico Douga MAD and other sound material material. Did you learn about this through video sites such as Nico Nico Douga?

Tobokegao: That's because I watched them on Nico Nico Douga. I also watched a surprising number of sound MADs, and I think I may have been influenced by many of them. My favorite sound MAD creator was Jidou Hanbaiki No Naka No Hito (English: Man in a vending machine). I used to listen to him musically because he was amazing at imitating breakbeats with sound materials that were not popular at all and forcibly using sound material like kecak. They are currently working under the name Sara(English: plate).

Akaobi: Were you consuming cheat bugs simply as a meme or were you inspired in part by their technical and visual aspects?

Tobokegao: I think it was both. I was amused by it from a meme point of view, and I was also looking at it from a technical point of view, thinking it was very strange.

THE INTEREST OF LIMITATIONS

Sato: From what you say, it seems that you like miscellaneous things. However, on the other hand, you seem to prefer minimalism in your design and music production, and chiptune is a genre with many restrictions to begin with. It is interesting to see how you manage to balance both.

Tobokegao: Regarding input, I prefer to acquire a variety of information in a miscellaneous manner, but regarding output, I like to compress the information I acquire and reorganize it into a minimal form. It may seem like a contradiction, but I think it goes both ways.

Sato: Indeed. When did you start liking such output?

Tobokegao: It was when I started creating songs with Game Boy, keeping to the restrictions. Before that, I couldn't choose between sounds and didn't like the clutter, but that didn't mean I didn't like to minimize it.

Akaobi: One of the conveniences of chiptunes is that the work can be completed in the software alone, and mixing can be done later, but it doesn't have to be done separately.

Tobokegao: That's right.

Akaobi: How do you keep a balance between the work done during mixing and the work done afterwards (so-called post-processing) when creating a song?

Tobokegao: I try to adjust the atmosphere and volume of the sound as much as possible during the songwriting stage, and I think mastering and other work should be quick, light, and minimal.

Akaobi: I can hear that in your music.

Tobokegao: I would still like to choose a method that makes the most of the material. I would like to commission mastering as well, but I've commissioned it before and the sound was very tinny. It was my first mini album "Picnic" from 2016. So I re-mastered it myself and re-released it as a deluxe edition. After that, I wasn't satisfied unless I did it myself. That way, if things don't go well, I can think it's because I'm not good enough, and I can make the best of it next time.

Akaobi: The compilation album "PURE MIDI Volume 1" (2022) released on "TBKgao" also placed emphasis on existing tones, didn't it?

Tobokegao: That's right. It all started with a demo that MLTEK sent to 《TBKgao》. I was impressed by the fact that such a wide variety of expression was possible with a plain MIDI-like scuzzy sound image.......! I was so impressed that I made up a genre and created a compilation album in the hope that everyone would create more music like this.

Akaobi: I think the limitations of not being able to differentiate by sound and of constructing the music with existing tones that cannot be altered made it more interesting to see the creator's unique way of creating the music and the differences in approach. This was a compilation album with many participants. Did the concept of "PURE MIDI" change before and after the album was created?

Tobokegao: I thought it was really free and flexible, from pop and cute songs to songs that keep playing sounds like temple rinses. I think "PURE MIDI" is a genre that can be liked or disliked depending on how you feel about the floppiness of the sound. An acquaintance of mine said it was like listening to a demo song for a Sampler or Synth created by someone else. But I think that's a good thing.

hally: Long ago, this was called the "GM sound source dribbling" type, wasn't it?

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. That's exactly how I feel. I think that if it were made by someone who was familiar with GM sound sources a long time ago, it would be music that is easy to use.

Akaobi: There are various ways and contexts in which music from the past can be made to sound new and interesting. Do you have the impression that the way we listen to music that is not sophisticated in the usual sense, such as "Pure MIDI," has changed?

Tobokegao: I think that people who used to listen to GM soundtracks are finding them fresh, and since I used to hear such sounds in browser games back in the Macintosh days, I guess you could say that the way of listening has changed in the sense that nostalgic sounds have been given a fresh impression over time.

hally: I don't have anything like this at the moment! It's a different impression when you listen to it at a time when you think, "I don't have anything like this right now! I think this is a path that chiptune has taken once before.

Sato: I thought the sound of the "PURE MIDI" music was similar to the sound of an electronic organ.

Tobokegao: Indeed. The demo sound source for the electone has a lot of potential, doesn't it?

hally: I would like to see good music come out of the field of electone. Like the old JOC concert soundtracks.

Akaobi: By the way, I have the impression that your music has become more open-ended since you started to use vocals fully in your works. Rearrangements of songs that were released as instrumentals in the past, rearrangements of single songs in the process of putting them into albums, different versions when participating in live performances, etc. Looking around these activities, I feel that Tobokegao's music is not packaged as a finished product, but rather is constantly changing as the occasion demands. What is your perspective on the completion of a song?

Tobokegao: It is true that I feel that more and more of my songs end up fading out in anticipation of my activities. There are times when I make a song and finish it as I feel I can rearrange it. I think it's important to keep it rough, because if it's too well-crafted, you won't be able to listen to it over and over again.

Akaobi: Compared to the production of a commercial music album, there are fewer steps from production to release, and I wonder if there is an affinity with the chiptune release format, where works can be released rapidly, just like sketches.

Tobokegao: Yes, that is true. Maybe I make music with the feeling of making sketches.

MUSICAL ACTIVITIES IN SAPPORO

Akaobi: While you have been active in the Kanto region for some time, you have been based mainly in Sapporo. In the process of researching information on how to compose music on the Game Boy and on chiptune, you came to know about the chiptune scene in Hokkaido, what was your perspective on the scene at the time?

Tobokegao: I thought it was above the clouds. There were many people in Hokkaido who were making music on Game Boy, so I was just grateful for the information they left behind. I didn't try to get involved.

Akaobi: Did you ever visit any chiptune events at that time?

Tobokegao: I didn't think of going at that time. It was enough to listen to the music at home, and I felt bad about asking people to teach me how to compose music.

Sato: I am curious as to why there were so many people in Hokkaido who were composing songs on Game Boy.

hally: In a word, it is a relatively rich soil. In Japan, there was a reasonably large chiptune scene in Kansai and Tokyo. Of the scenes that emerged after that, Fukuoka was the largest, followed by Hokkaido. However, while Osaka, Tokyo, Kyoto, and Fukuoka all had active live music scenes, Hokkaido's live music scene was not as active. I think it was probably because it was difficult to attract people to events.

Tobokegao: That's a very good reason.

hally: I think that's why there were probably not many events in 2014. I remember that there were two or three relatively well-known people by 2014.

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. I think Uchino Jump was also active in Hokkaido. I think that the number of people making chiptune music was decreasing when I started my own activities.

Sato: Are there many people whose musicality has changed away from chiptune?

Tobokegao: I think that as chiptune becomes more sophisticated, the arrangements tend to be the same, but as they add new elements to try to break through that, I think the chiptune elements are decreasing.

hally: Actually, 2014 was a downhill period for the chiptune scene as a whole. The reason my book ends with the year 2012 is because the legacy of what had been going on up to that point ended in that year. Two years later, I think I was starting from a situation where nothing existed that existed before.

Tobokegao: I see. TORIENA and others were gaining momentum around that time, so I had the impression that there was a second wave of activity.

hally: It was a time when TORIENA and HigeDriver were really growing, so I had the image of these two leading the way in the future.

Akaobi: At the Tokyo edition of "TOBOX Release Party," you did VJ, DJ, and live performances, didn't you? On the other hand, why did you take a step back and only DJ at the Sapporo event?

Tobokegao: Because there are more people who know me in Tokyo. As I am mainly active on the Internet, there are more people who know me in Tokyo than in Sapporo. If I were in Tokyo, I could play my songs, but in Sapporo, I feel that there would be no one who knows me.

Akaobi: That is indeed a modest response to .......

Tobokegao: I expected that many people would come for acts other than myself. If that was the case, I decided not to do a live show because I would rather have people listen to my favorite songs than my own songs. In fact, I think that prediction was correct.

hally: You can do it anytime in your hometown, so sometimes you think that you don't have to do it this time to show your style, don't you?

Tobokegao: That's right.

Sato: Was there a difference in the reaction of the audience between Tokyo and Sapporo?

Tobokegao: My impression was that the atmosphere in Tokyo was more cheering, while many people in Sapporo were listening to the music calmly. But there were quite a few people who came from outside of Hokkaido for the Sapporo version.

Sato: I see. Is there anything you find difficult about being based in Sapporo?

Tobokegao: There are not many people. Sapporo is said to have the third worst population density. I wish it would be a little more lively. Also, there are not many CDs. It's not that there are no CDs at all, but the chances of finding a rare one are low.

Sato: I see.

Tobokegao: But I think it's a good thing that because there are fewer people, it's an environment where it's easier to mingle with others. In Tokyo, there are many people bigger than me and I often give up when I find myself with no chance to talk with them .......

Sato: cvel was also in the Sapporo section this time. Is there a possibility that this will lead to more active involvement with the club scene in Sapporo, which seems to be derived from Internet culture?

Tobokegao: I think so! I got to know cvel through the activities of Hanakami Riyuu and DOG NOISE, and from there I started hanging out at parties at Sound Lab mole and PLASTIC THEATER, so I would like to actively get involved.

TOBOKEGAO AS A MEDIUM

Looking back on the Sapporo version of "TOBOX Release Party," the state of "TBKgao," and the use of SNS and other interactions with others, we considered the many aspects of Tobokegao and "Tobokegao" as an entity that possesses all of these aspects.

REFLECTION ON THE "TOBOX RELEASE PARTY" IN SAPPORO

Tobokegao: First of all, the first performer of the Sapporo version was Sausumaun, who is also the manager of Haircut VOX. He played a Vaporwave set with a chiptune sound in mind, which was perfect for the opening of the party. tktc szk sang while playing "PURE MIDI" sounds from a stack of analog synthesizers. He sang while playing the "PURE MIDI" sound. It was a pleasure to hear a performance that captured the "PURE MIDI" sound so well. Toyohira Kumin residents played Vaporwave, which was not chiptune music, but was like a background music with video images of Sapporo's cityscape and animals taken with an iPhone in the background.

Akaobi: This time, I felt that Toyohira Kumin had a strong editorial aspect to his performance; the video footage he shot with his iPhone included environmental sounds, giving it a field-recording approach. It was a work that was far removed from his usual beat-making style, but I wondered if it showed Toyohira-kujin's motivation to edit the material in his own way, separate from the music.

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. The next person, Shiroshibins, is a tabla player. He was doing trackmaking by scratching the sound and effects of sonority instructional books while playing the tabla. He also did a noise piece that was a mixture of noise pieces, which was interesting. It was also interesting that the track itself had some square wave-like sounds mixed in. cvel is now more experimental, but I heard that he used to play future bass, so I thought he might have a square wave feeling, so I asked him to join us. I enjoyed the way he interweaves ambient and chiptune-like sounds.

Akaobi: What did you think of Yuri Umemoto?

Tobokegao: Umemoto-san was amazing. He played the cello along with "Moe² Shoujo," a glitchy piece of moe anime-style dialogue recorded by voice actors, and he also played the cello along with a chiptune track. It was an experimental effort, like a live set that was well edited and fused with these two and others.

Akaobi: Next up is Sarai Takemoto.

Tobokegao: He is a DJ with a 3D avatar who does VRChat. But in fact, he has been digging chiptunes for a long time, and is like a master of his own digging. I have been listening to and watching and absorbing the chiptune and historical information introduced by the person in Sarai's without missing a beat. I wanted to invite Ca5 because he is a big proponent of chipbreaking, which is a fusion of chiptune and breakcore. He was able to break down the chiptune sound and breakbeats with his gimmick, and then create breakbeats.

Akaobi: Ca5 is also an engineer, so you used Max/MSP programs as well as DAWs such as Ableton, and the set was organically manipulated with multiple controllers.

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. And Akaobi, taking into account that "TOBOX" is composed of only vocal songs, was a grand DJ who mainly used synthetic voice Commodore 64 songs on the theme of voice.

Akaobi: Thank you.

Tobokegao: Umino Hiyake said it was his first live performance in 6 years. It was great to see him after a long time. They did a VGM remix on two Gameboys.

Akaobi: So it's been 6 years.

Tobokegao: It seems so. So anyway, I did whatever I wanted, mixing my favorite chiptunes, digital fusion music derived from chiptunes, which combines square wave-like sounds and live instruments, and music inspired by game music. I was happy to hear hally's remix of "Game Boy Camera" in the beginning of the last song, because I love Game Boy Camera.

hally: I was surprised even when I heard it at the time.

Tobokegao: The FM soundtrack from there was also good. The theme of this release party was not chiptune, but rather the three sounds of square wave and pulse wave sounds, the metallic, MegaDrive-like sounds of FM sound sources, and the cheap midi sounds with no effects applied. In that sense, it was probably not a chiptune event.

Tobokegao is a digger, curator and listener

Akaobi: I thought that was very interesting. I think it is noteworthy that instead of focusing on a single genre of chiptune, Tobokegao's own musical swing was directly connected to the selection of people for the party.

Tobokegao: I think you may be right.

Akaobi: Rather than focusing on just one community, I think the TOBOX Release Party was a perfect example of the wide range of interests that Tobokegao has as a scout for interesting music. If we wanted to hold an event with people related to chiptune, we would never have been able to gather such a lineup except for Tobokegao. Tobokegao's strengths as a curator shined through.

Sato: With Tobokegao at the center, people who focus on or can focus on sounds such as square waves, FM sound sources, and "PURE MIDI" gathered and overlapped, and it seems that the expansion of these sounds became visible.

Tobokegao: That is exactly right. I think it was an event that merged together the musicality of all the performers without missing any of the last-minute connections between them.

hally: If it weren't for the presence of Tobokegao, I wouldn't have known much about the event. It would have been understandable only as an expansion of your interest.

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. If I hadn't existed, it would have been an event that would have been scattered, because there would have been nothing in common.

hally: So I think it was good that it was easy to understand that you were pushing it as your own event.

Tobokegao: That's right. I called it a release party, but I might have just invited people who I wanted to hear me play or DJ. But actually, when I started my chiptune activities in the first place, I was thinking of creating songs, but my main focus was to find songs. I was looking for music that would bring back the experience of playing the Game Boy, in other words, chiptune and related music, and if I couldn't find what I was looking for, I would create it myself.

Sato: If you made a song, it means that you didn't find a song that you liked! So you didn't have a song that you thought "This is it!

Tobokegao: That's right. I think I know what I like best when I make my own music.

OPENLY SHARING YOUR SKILLS

Akaobi: I get the impression that you are not only acquiring skills, but also opening up the music production process by, for example, releasing LSDj work files that can be read and edited by anyone, distributing your work on YouTube, and tweeting LSDj Tips. What is the reason or intention behind these series of activities?

Tobokegao: I think it is easier for everyone to create music if we openly share our techniques. There is no need for people to suffer, so I have been releasing my work with the hope that people who create chiptunes will move in the right direction. I also think that by disclosing your own techniques, some people will be able to try their hand at composing music and solve their composition problems, and I believe that this will create an environment that facilitates the creation of good works.

Sato: Do you think that the fact that you yourself have been helped by the information left behind by your predecessors in composing for the Game Boy has had an influence on your willingness to share information publicly?

Tobokegao: Yes, that is true. I didn't have a mentor in terms of music production, so I think that even more so.

hally: Do you want to see more people making chiptunes?

Tobokegao: Yes, you could say that, but I think it is more as a listener that I would like to see the number of songs I like increase as the number of works increases. I have been told that it is not aesthetically pleasing to publish everything.

Akaobi: In chiptune and related tracker culture, the development of individual artists' awareness and changes in distribution formats over time are linked, aren't they? As the distribution of raw data shifted to MP3 distribution, then to CD sales, and now to mainstream distribution via SoundCloud, Bandcamp, etc., I have the impression that more and more people have become reluctant to reveal their personal information or to keep their music private.

hally: Unlike traditional trackers, LSDj did not fit into the culture of public sharing. Although it is possible to make public by exchanging saved data, such a culture did not develop at all from the beginning. So I have the image that LSDj users are closed in that sense from the beginning.

Sato: Is it a medium where it is difficult to exchange information?

hally: There is a lot of information exchange on the bulletin board, but people don't exchange saved data with each other. It is more standard in the chiptune scene as a whole to make it more and more public.

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. I thought it was better that way, so I opened it up to the public.

Akaobi: You think it is better to open it up and have more songs that you like.

Tobokegao: Yes, that's right. I can understand the negative attitude toward openness. It would be boring to hear the same sounds all the time. But if good songs come out of it, that's great. It is easier to find good songs among technically skilled songs than to find good songs among boring songs with many technically immature songs.

Akaobi: Even though the means of composing music has changed from LSDj to M8 Tracker, that idea hasn't changed, has it?

Tobokegao: That's right. Rather, I feel more comfortable with M8 Tracker because we share information more and more. There are many users from overseas, so there are many people who are not afraid to share their technology with the public.

hally: It is closer to the original tracker culture.

Tobokegao: When I released my data, the developer asked me if he could include it in the presets, and now I have my own tone in the preset. I thought it was really great. The developer of the M8 Tracker was also a well-known LSDj user from the early days, so I am very grateful to him for creating it. That's one of the reasons why I've been moving away from LSDj.

《TBKgao》 SUPPORTS ARTISTS

Akaobi: You launched the label 《TBKgao》 in 2019, and up to the present day, Tobokegao's works have basically come from 《TBKgao》. I would like to ask you about the background and motivation behind the label's creation. In your recent tweet, you said "I don't want to leave it to others and create a black box," and I got the impression that you had a very strong will to start the label.

Tobokegao: That's because I had the experience that "Cheapbeats", which released my first mini-album "Picnic," shut down and I didn't really know how to manage the songs. It's very troublesome, that kind of thing. I also had the experience of putting out "Shibuya-kei Chiptune Cover Compilation", I was in charge of it. I was only in charge of supervising the "Shibuya-kei Chiptune Cover Compilation," so I gathered people and tried to cooperate with them, but the management of the copyrights of the songs was neglected, and I had to pay back any profit that was made, and the relationship between us became messy. Anyway, I wanted to manage everything myself, so I set up my own label. That way, if something happens, I can accept it as my responsibility.

Akaobi: Currently, you have exileFaker, MLTEK, Yagishiro, and Rei8bit as label mates. Do you have any specific criteria for inviting them to join the label?

Tobokegao: It depends on whether or not I want to support the work. It might be easier to understand if I call it a business of supporting works that I want to support, borrowing the form of a label. Ordinary labels receive commissions and manage the works, but I don't do that.

Sato: When you say support, what exactly do you do?

Tobokegao: For example, if they find an artist who they think would be a good fit for their cover artwork, I introduce them to them and pay for the artwork myself. I also promote crossfade demos on my Bandcamp account. I don't want to make any profit, so if there are artists I want to support, I just invite them.

hally: You are going back to the original form of an online label, aren't you?

Tobokegao: Is that right?

hally: In the past, there was no way to make a profit from an online label.

Tobokegao: I see. I realized that if I tried to make a profit in a strange way, I might get into trouble, so I wanted to set up my own label as a support group only. Besides, I feel that I am more likely to get a good response when I work on my own label, so I feel that I am creating a work of art. Picnic" was the best-selling album in terms of sales, but I think it was "Cheapbeats" that made the profit in the end.

hally: Do you have any medium- to long-term goals for the label?

Tobokegao: I can't say that I have any medium- to long-term goals for the label, but since artists I like call on me because of the label, I hope that the label will become a collective where all of those artists can get together.

TOBOKEGAO-KEI

Sato: In addition to supporting artists through "TBKgao," you usually retweet various information on Twitter, do you continue to use Twitter as a base for your activities and interactions?

TBKgao: Yes, I am most comfortable on Twitter, and the miscellaneous nature of the site suits me well. I can stream videos and songs, and I can also do live broadcasts from my space.

Sato: Do you often search for artists you want to support through labels on Twitter?

Tobokegao: Yes, mostly on Twitter. I also use SoundCloud and Discord.

Sato: Are most chiptune producers based on Twitter?

hally: I wonder if there is such a thing as a base. hally I don't know if they have a base to begin with.

Tobokegao: That's right. I have the feeling that it would be nice if I could become a base by collecting information and making it into a media outlet.

Akaobi: There are people who only upload their music on YouTube, but you even follow them and introduce them on Twitter.

hally: I think Tobokegao-san plays a major role as a hub. There used to be many hubs for chiptune news and information, but they either went out of business, went silent, or changed direction one after another, and before I knew it, Tobokegao and a few others were the only ones left.

Tobokegao: was he the Sazamushi? I think "Unnamed" was also a very good blog, but it's gone.

hally: I myself am a person who stopped "VORC" in that way, so I am not a stranger to this situation.

Tobokegao: Will there be a resurrection?

hally: I have my hands full with what I'm doing now. But "CHIP UNION" was supposed to be a successor to "VORC" to some extent, so I wanted to commit to it a little more. But looking at the current situation, I honestly feel relieved that Tobokegao is working on it.

Tobokegao: I think that using social networking sites as media rather than websites or blogs is probably more suitable for the current situation.

hally: However, I think it is necessary to assume that Tobokegao may not be able to move for some reason. If the information-gathering AI becomes a little easier to use, I think it would be possible to have it collect songs that Tobokegao might pick up.

Tobokegao: I would like to try that out. I think in that case I'll eventually become an immortal account even after I'm gone.

hally: As I said earlier, as far as chiptunes are concerned, both news sites and labels have been up and down too many times, so I've actually been thinking for a long time that it might be a good idea to think about how to operate in that way.

Akaobi: As I have said, Tobokegao himself is more than a user of SNS and other media; I think he has become a media outlet. In a way different from the way news sites transmit information, Tobokegao has gained a great deal of trust through his past activities as a mediator, constantly receiving and transmitting information on music, musical works, visual works, and other interesting things.

Tobokegao: In this context, I am often referred to as a "retweeter. It is said to refer to people who transmit and gather information by retweeting.

Sato: So you are in a position to create the nexus of various things.

hally: If you continue to do this for a long time, you might be able to create a genre like "Tobokegao-kei," or perhaps it has already been created.

Sato: If "Tobokegao-kei" were to be established, what kind of genre do you think hally and Akaobi would be able to describe? Tobokegao, what kind of genre would you be happy to see "Tobokegao-kei" established as?

hally: I think it would be like drawing concentric circles around chiptunes.

Akaobi: One of the great things about Tobokegao is that he bridges the gap between chiptune and the history of popular music and VGM, mutating it into a kind of folk song, a musical form that expresses fresh, even modest emotions each time, and continues to experiment with mutations as he grows. That is exactly what Beck, who also has an album called "Mutations," is doing with the chiptune tool in the broad/narrow sense of the word. If we were to analyze the Tobokegao-kei as a genre, it would be interesting to juxtapose it with Beck's trajectory.

Tobokegao: I would like to see music that reflects a wide variety of tastes branch out to the point where "Tobokegao-kei" is no longer recognizable! If it is established as a genre, it will be hard to create development because all the songs will be similar, and it will be boring.